SPEAKER_01 0:00

Have you ever thought to yourself, this guy I'm dating, he seems great, but he also feels a little bit distant, a little bit closed off. And you might be thinking to yourself, why won't he just open up to me? Well, in today's podcast, we're gonna be talking about how to really open up a man's heart. Welcome to the Love Strategies Podcast, where we help successful women attract high-value men, date with a strategy, and improve their relationships. Now, whether you're single or in dating or in a new relationship, we're here to help you dive into the male mind and provide raw insights found nowhere else, backed by science, psychology, and our own personal experiences. Your hosts today are myself, Adam Ladolce, a professional dating coach and founder of Love Strategies, and Dr. Gary Lewandowski, a relationship scientist, professor, and our head relationship coach here at Love Strategies. Please share with a friend and enjoy. Gary, are you feeling open today? Are we gonna be a little bit vulnerable? Let it go.

SPEAKER_00 0:57

Let's crack this while night. Let's do it. Let's crack these men open, right? Like, and I think everyone, I feel like every client wants their guy to just open up a little bit more. And I think this is a worthwhile goal. Like, this is exactly one of those times where it's like what you want is what's best for the relationship. Because a guy opening up, he's kind of he kind of has to play catch up. Let's be honest. Like you're a little bit more open, he's got to catch up. And so I think where women go wrong with this is they try the patience, they try the thoughtful questions, they try to like orchestrate these perfect moments, and yet none of that seems to really get you where you want to go. He gives you what I've seen called the conversational shrug, where it's like, yeah, not I'm not biting, I'm not doing this thing. Like it's like he kind of he sees what he sees what you're trying to do, and it's like, nope, not doing it, not falling for it. And I think we don't want you to feel hopeless. We don't want you to start thinking that all men just like this. Is this just something I have to accept? Because the answer is no. There is a way to get a guy to open up. Um, and it's not magic words and it's not tricks or anything like that. It's there's a few psychological mechanisms at play, and that's what we're going to talk about.

SPEAKER_01 2:12

Well, it's like, why don't guys just immediately open up and become more vulnerable? Well, uh, Gary, I don't know if it's you ever went through this, but there's sometimes moments where you know, in my past, like a woman would try to open me up. And I just in that very moment think back to this kid, his name is Brad, in middle school, who would any anytime you share anything, he'd just like put his fist up and be like, shut up, you wuss. Like, seriously, like literally, he's just like he's like haunting me to this day. But it's true for like a lot of men, like when we're younger, we are just not encouraged to share our emotions. There is this just remnants, and I know we're all adults at this point, but there's this remnants of you know, are the bullies or even just our buddies who kind of make fun of us and like, dude, what are you talking about? You know, whereas women growing up, like there's there's just so much emotional connection and discussion. Gary, are you thinking about do you have a brad? Do you have a brad?

SPEAKER_00 3:13

I'm just thinking about this kid Brad always be like, shut up, Adam, stop being a wort.

SPEAKER_01 3:18

It's really funny. But I also think like there are bully brads. See, that that's a bully moment. See, Gary just did it to me again. He laughed, he made fun of me. I was being vulnerable. Thanks, Gary. Way to shut me down, buddy.

SPEAKER_00 3:30

I would trying to soften the moment. I'm I'm I'm sorry this hurt you. Um show me, show me, show me where Brad hurt you. It's on the inside. So there are bullies like Brad. But here's the really ironic thing. There are also bullies named Brenda, and some of the men you've been dating have encountered Brenda the bully. And what that what I mean by that, it's not really bullying in the sense, but it's he opened up, he shared, he was a little vulnerable. And you know where that ended him up? Friend zone, right? And so guys sometimes are really concerned about what this emotional vulnerability, what this openness is gonna get them. Where is the where is this gonna lead? I also just think guys have a really tough balance. We want men in our society to be tough and masculine while simultaneously being kind and emotionally intelligent. That's a tough combo. It's a tough ask. And I think when it comes to men in relationships, we want women want different things from men at different times. And it's not always clear which version he's supposed to be giving at a certain time, right? Like when there isn't something, some emotional turmoil, is he supposed to be tough and strong and and lead the way and just and say, like, no, we got this, suck it up. We you know, no problem. Or is it like, oh geez, let's let's process this, let's let's talk about this. And I think guys just there's also this underlying concern all the time that guys know soft isn't sexy. And especially early on in a relationship, he wants to be sexy. He's he's not looking for the softness. And so um, it's just it's something to really keep in mind.

SPEAKER_01 5:15

And what's most difficult about this Brenda woman, and sorry to all the Brendas out there, but the what's the most frustrating, I think, for a lot of guys is they'll start dating a Brenda and she'll say that she wants a man to be soft and vulnerable and open up to him. But the moment he does that is this immense moment of weakness that she finds very unattractive. I'm not saying all women are like this, but I think that there is very much so just a kind of misalignment with what people say that they want and what they actually want. And it's it's a very, very tough standard. Like you said, like to be tough and masculine while at the same time being very emotionally in tune and sensitive, it's kind of like if a guy said, I want to be with a woman who is very soft and feminine who also takes charge. It's like it's right. You can have it, it's it's it's possible to some degree. And like you all are probably thinking to yourself, Well, I don't want to have to take charge in the relationship, and that's fine. But they they conflict with one another, and so it's a it's a real challenge for guys to navigate, you know?

SPEAKER_00 6:24

Yeah, and I think big picture, what humans need to be vulnerable emotionally is emotional safety. And newsflash, men are human too, and so that's the big picture idea here is that men need emotional safety, they need to feel like when they open up, they're not gonna get ridiculed, they're not gonna be called a wuss, they're not gonna be friend zoned, they're not gonna be seen as soft or unmasculine or unmanly. They need to know that it's like it's okay. And that's really what today's podcast is all about. It's not about a magical word or a magical setting, or it's it's really about like how do we create space that makes it clear to a man like it's okay for you to open up because he's got a lot to open up about. And I will just put this out there now. When you start doing this well, just be ready. He's gonna open up quite a bit because there's a lot pent up. And so don't think like, oh gosh, what did I do here? That will dissipate over time, but there's gonna be a lot pent up things to and he's gonna be like, Oh my gosh, I actually feel good with you. You're gonna get a lot of sharing early on.

SPEAKER_01 7:36

Yeah. And we've heard this a lot from clients, Gary, but when clients will say, Well, I don't want to be a therapist, right? And like, I don't want to get into that role. And I understand the fear of falling into that trap. And we certainly don't want to be a therapist, but I'll give you a different take on this, which is a lot of guys don't go to therapy, and a lot of guys, their relationships with their friends are not really based on vulnerability. And so, in many ways, once you do get a guy to open up, at first it might kind of feel like a therapy session because he's just unloaded things that he hasn't been able to talk about his entire life. And so just understand that when this when you first start doing the things we're going to be discussing, he really is. It's got it could, in some ways, be just like flowing in ways that might make you feel a little bit uncomfortable. But let's sit with that because that is really where a lot of the deeper connections can occur. That's where it can happen.

SPEAKER_00 8:31

Yeah, and you just have to keep in mind at all times with this is you are playing the long game. And so just because he opens up a ton at first, that doesn't, you know, the automatic reaction is like it's always gonna be like this. I'm gonna be his constant therapist at all times. Like, no, no, no. This is just his first like exhale where he's getting to share, and it's it's likely not gonna be like this forever and ever. Um, and so, you know, we do want him to open up. So, how do we get this guy to be emotionally vulnerable and we get him to open up? And it starts really with you. It starts with you being vulnerable first, and so it's not even emotional vulnerability, it's being vulnerable in the sense of don't be so darn competent at all times. And I know that sounds weird, but it's like men unconsciously need to be needed, they need to feel useful, they need that to feel loved. And so, yes, you can do all the things, but you don't have to, right? There's plenty of things I can do that I get other people to do, right? And that's that's okay. And so give him a place. And this is what I mean by being vulnerable, because showing when you're so darn competent, at times showing that you aren't gonna do something, right, that's a little vulnerable. You're you're actually like displaying less competence on purpose, but that's okay because guys need that competence high, they need that feeling that his presence is necessary. And if you're doing all the things at all the times and doing it amazingly well, he gets the clear-cut message, she doesn't need me. And that's tough because that's how he knows how to be needed.

SPEAKER_01 10:11

I think that there's been a lot of messaging for women over the past 50 years that independence is strength. And I understand where that comes from. Like that it was a very healthy message for a period of time where we really needed to elevate women and create equality in uh the workplace and and the the world. Um, but I would now take a kind of different approach where actually being truly independent and not being willing to allow someone else to step in is actually in some ways a form of a way of weakness. And true like strength comes from relying on others, being willing to share those parts of you that are a bit imperfect, allowing other people to support you. Like that to me is strength. Like having that critical conversation with someone that makes you really nervous that you haven't shared with anyone in a really long time, and really leaning on someone else and depending on them, that to me is strength, right? Anyone can just be like, I'm independent, I don't need anyone, get out of my life, I'm good. That to me comes from a place of fear. I think fear is a better word than weakness. That comes from a place of fear, whereas like truly depending on someone and being vulnerable and opening up to someone, especially someone new in your life, that takes a lot of courage, that takes a lot of strength.

SPEAKER_00 11:38

You know, from an evolutionary perspective, you know what they called people who were hyper-independent? Dead. Dead. Right. Like when you're like you needed to rely on sorry, I set you up for a weird quiz that you didn't do. That's good. That's good. You got me on that one. But it's like if you were hyper-independent back in the day, like way back in the day, right? You you were dead. Like you couldn't do all the things you needed to do to survive on your own. And so there's some parallels here. And so the strategy for women, for anybody, anybody in a relationship, really, is show some vulnerability by having some, like, give some small requests. Call your partner in, show them that you need them and value their opinion, right? It's it's what you know, you're you're hanging up a picture or you're doing something around the house. Hey, can I trust your eye for this? Like, what do you think about this? Like, what would look good here? What how do you think this should go? Can I get your opinion on blankety blanket? Whatever that is, right? How would you handle this situation? I'm in this tough situation of work. How would you handle this? People love giving their opinions, men, especially, right? I mean, and this is like what he's thriving for is like, please put me in, coach. Like, let me tell you how I would do this. And I get it. Like, we you've heard enough mansplaining in your life to actually probably not really want some other guy to mansplain something to you that you already know. But you don't have to live, like, it's like you can have your opinion, you get his opinion, and then it's extra information. It can always help, and there's a difference when you're asking for it. Um, later in the relationship, like this is this is a when you're getting to know somebody, but later in the relationship, we coach all the time that it's not you versus the problem, it's us against the problem. It's always me and you together. How are we gonna take on the world? And so some of that starts here. And it's just a general thing when it comes to vulnerability. This is one of the areas where women, I'm sorry, but you have to take the lead. If you're waiting for a man to be vulnerable first before you are then vulnerable, that you're gonna wait forever. It's just not gonna happen. And so you start the vulnerability like by getting his help, getting his assistance. That's the start. But then it's also with the emotional vulnerability. You share first, and there's natural reciprocity that takes over. You share, he shares, you share. But I don't know a situation where it's the man that shares it's first. It's just too, it's too wrought with peril. Like it's just he he is gonna mess that up more times than not for sure.

SPEAKER_01 14:12

So for everyone listening in right now, I challenge you all. If you're talking to a guy right now or you have an upcoming date, um before that date, just journal something about yourself that's a little bit more vulnerable, something that makes you a little bit nervous, something that shares a part of you that might be a little bit imperfect. And of course, the degree to which we are going to be vulnerable will depend on how long you've been dating this person. Of course, if you've been with them for five years, okay, we are going to go to the depths of your soul vulnerability and share something that perhaps you've just never shared with someone in your life. If you're going on a second date with a guy, okay, let's calibrate a little bit and maybe we'll just share something about our childhood or something that's happened to us recently that might be a little bit imperfect, a little bit different, something quirky that happened in your life that shares a different part of you. But I challenge you something that's really helpful for everyone. And in fact, I kind of had to do this myself when I was challenging myself to be more vulnerable on a date, is just be intentional about it before the date. Just write it down and be like, you know what? I'm gonna challenge myself to just open up a little bit about myself on this upcoming date. And we've done this challenge with a number of clients in the past, and they found wow, that just created it, it was like kind of like the first step forward. I'm gonna take this first step. And then he reciprocated with equivalent vulnerability. And then every date you go on, you just share a little bit more. He shares a little bit more, and by the fifth, sixth date, suddenly you're finding, like, wow, we really know each other, not just the surface level part of each ourselves, but we really are starting to get to know the deep inner soul of this human being.

SPEAKER_00 15:54

Yeah, I think one of the easiest ones on any first date is for you as the woman to mention first that you're a little nervous for this, right? Like this was it's a little nerve-wracking. Like, oh gosh, I don't, I don't know. I'm I'm excited, but I'm also just a little nervous about tonight. I don't know because I just don't know how this is. I just I'm a little unsure. And you just kind of say it like that. And especially if you sense that he's nervous, you should definitely do this because it kind of just again lets him exhale and be like, okay, cool, she's nervous too. I'm not freaking out for no reason. And it it's it's amazing what just a little of vulnerability on your part will bring out in him. All right, the second way to get more openness from your guy is you have to just do a little emotional rewiring, right? These guys, a lot of times, they're guarded, and it's not about you necessarily at all. He doesn't know you well enough yet to be it to make it about you. He's guarded because of his past. He's encountered a Brenda again. Sorry, Brendas, but he's encountered a Brenda who he's has this pattern where opening up leads to pain. When I open up, it's just not worth it. It becomes a whole thing. She doesn't really appreciate it. She mocks me, she makes fun of me, she doesn't really want to hear that. If I open up, she doesn't think it's manly, and then I just get in the friend zone and just waste a lot of time. Like he's got a bunch of baggage, he's carrying around a bunch of wounds. And it's it's hard to believe, but like, so because you wouldn't do this. But he is out there dating other women who absolutely do this exact thing. Other women out there punish guys for being vulnerable. No, no, no, like punish them emotionally and like just kind of look down on them and all that kind of stuff. And so, um, if I if I may, I would just get a little nerdy. I haven't taught my stats class in a little bit, but there's this stats idea. You ready for this, Adam? Ready. You are nerding out. Go be vulnerable with your stats, buddy. All right. So Bayesian updating, and so it's just this stat concept where you make estimates when you you get new information that's inconsistent with old evidence, you update your model, right? And so that sounds very obvious, but like stat people are really into this idea, and so it's you're constantly getting new information, and so you need to make sure he gets new information. So that you know, we always talk about in Bayesian modeling, is like you have to update, quote unquote, update your priors. And so his prior experience has been when I get emotionally vulnerable, bad things happen. And so you just have to keep this in, you keep this in mind, and so it's just as easy as you react with calm instead of criticism, right? You don't punish vulnerability, you're rewarded like, oh my gosh, I love how open you were right there. I love how you shared. I love a man who is so sensitive. You just have you have to say the things out loud in a way that maybe you have never done before, but you say them out loud, and what he starts realizing is like, oh my gosh, this is different. And it'll start unwinding some of the experiences he's had in the past. The other strategy you just want to practice is radical emotional predictability. Because one of the past experiences guys have had is the ultimate bait and switch. It's the girl they start dating who is super cool. She's the cool girl. But we've all, as men, and I don't know about you, Adam, but I've experienced this, you get the cool girl switch up. You you're dating, she's cool with everything, everything you want to do. Like, she loves all the things you love. You're like, oh my gosh, this is amazing. You get a certain far enough along in your relationship. I was gonna the three months is is about the time I I've experienced it. Um, all of a sudden, she changes up. She's like, you know, I never really liked your friends. Wait, what? Yep. Oh, we did, we hung out with my friends all the time. You never said anything. Yeah, I was just being nice, but I know I never really liked Dan. I never liked him at all. He he was kind of an ass. I'm like, okay. Wait, why? What happened? Like, oh yeah, and also I don't like going to the to see the concerts that you like to go to. I find that group annoying. Wait, what? It's the cool girl switch up, and it's like that creates again, like, why would a man open up to somebody if you're one person early on and then someone else later? Definitely.

SPEAKER_01 20:17

And he's just gotta feel like like you said earlier. I mean, I think the big one for me, I love being updating. Oh my god, Bayesian Bayesian. Oh my god, Gary. I'm so embarrassed. I'm gonna keep this. I'm not gonna edit that out now. Everyone can know how I am just by Easian. By Easian updating. Oh my gosh. That now you can all know I'm reading it from that from a screen. Um, it's been some time since I took my stat class, but it's really important though, seriously, to be able to just get that new information that he's like, look, this is safe, this is comfortable, I can open up. And you're right. Like, I think so often we assume that people are hearing what we're trying to communicate, but we're not being very clear. And for all of you, when a guy really is opening up, just be 100% like speaking to an elementary school kid. Like, look, I hear you, I appreciate you, and you're very safe sharing anything with me. Like those are very, very powerful words. And I think in in our minds, we might assume, like, hey, of course that's the case, but he needs to hear that. He needs to hear those words. It's just like I love you, right?

SPEAKER_00 21:32

It's like, you know, when someone says, Oh, I don't say I love you because you know, you know it. Like, no, no, no, need to hear it. Right? It just like he needs to hear, you're safe with me. I I love this about you, I find this amazing. And so just be 10% more consistent in your reactions than the average person is. I know that's like an arbitrary number, but it's just like force that consistency, force that like calmness, not the oh no, not the overreaction. Just like, yeah, oh. I'm here. I'm so I'm supportive. What can I do? That sounds that sounds like that was tough. Thank you for sharing that, by the way. Thank you for being honest. And so repeated enough over time. This consistency, it'll update his priors. His nervous system will stop bracing for like, oh gosh, I shared. What's gonna, what's gonna happen now? It's gonna be like, okay, no, sharing is good. Sharing gives a good reaction. It brings out more positivity. And that and that's really important.

SPEAKER_01 22:28

And everything we're discussing really falls into, you know, a few different steps in the dating process. But in particular, this is very important at what we call little love step number six, where we're setting boundaries for a committed exclusive relationship. And for those of you who are listening in right now who aren't familiar with our step-by-step process that we have used to help literally tens of thousands of women over the past decade get out there and find love, then I recommend you learn the seven little love steps. We give it out completely for free. We want everyone to understand these steps. Um, so if you head on over to thelovesteps.com, we have a really interesting and very unique interactive training that'll walk you through all the seven little love steps. If at the end of that training you're like, hey, you know what? I want some help, some guidance, some coaching to get me there to do this. You can schedule a session with someone on my team, can talk more about working with us. But most importantly, just head on over to thelovesteps.com or click the link in the description so you can learn all the seven little love steps and be on the same page as to how it is that we help women just like you get out there and find love.

SPEAKER_00 23:34

All right. So the next way we get the guys to open up, we said it's all about creating space. This is how you share that space together. And this is what I call the shared horizon technique. So men are just much more likely to open up if you're sitting side by side, looking off at a shared horizon than they are if you're sitting face to face. Um, guys are just more used to doing activities next to people. And when they're doing that, there's there's it loses the intimidation or the emotional discomfort of looking at somebody eye to eye. Now, you might be thinking, well, why can't he look at me eye to eye? It's not that he can't. It's just that if you want to create a situation where it's just more likely for him to open up, let's make it as easy as possible. So when you're driving, you're walking, maybe when you're playing pool, maybe when you're, you know, building furniture together, like just some activity, cooking together in the kitchen. It's not a bad time to talk about things because you can, you know, they they talk about this with men as men like to interact over around a third object. So it's a project, it's an activity, it's two guys sitting side by side at the bar watching the World Cup, watching football on TV. And it's like that is a great time for men. That's just how they tend to open up. And so it's like, let's step into that world just a little bit. Um, because sometimes the direct eye contact can just feel a little bit like interrogation. It can feel a little bit like a threat. Um, it's definitely everything.

SPEAKER_01 24:58

If you're peering like deeply into someone's soul as they're asking you, like, how does this make you feel? as they're like directing just into your entire body. It's just not like it's not a natural, easy way to have a conversation. It's even like the the classic stereotypical therapist, you kind of lay in a chair and you're kind of like, they're not just staring directly into your soul as they're having a conversation, typically. There's there's something a little bit more comfortable. And another thing worth mentioning, like, for those of you notice this when you go out to a bar, when guys are just together as two guys, they usually either sit at a bar or if they're sitting at a table together, they're sitting side by side, usually not across from each other. Once again, it's just a little bit less threatening, it's a little bit less intense.

SPEAKER_00 25:43

And even if you are sitting directly across from each other, you turn your chairs out.

unknown 25:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:49

Right? It's a subtle thing, but it's an important move. It's an important, important move. Um, all right. So then the last way to get a guy to open up is rewrite the heroic narrative. And so you have probably heard us on this podcast, and I we even gave a little bit of this advice earlier is let him be the hero. Show, show your man that he's your king, show him that he's got this role. And that's true. But at the same time, like guys do want to feel like they have a role in this relationship, like they're needed, that they are a hero and they can provide and all that good stuff. Yes, but this is one of those times where it's yes and don't just mention this piece. Because if you only hype him up as your hero, what does that tell him? It tells him that if he's anything less than heroic, you may not like him. You may not appreciate him. And so it's hype up the heroic, yes. And make sure you celebrate the other pieces. Celebrate the times when he's working at something and then he's struggling, celebrate the times he's open, celebrate the times that he gets a little teary-eyed, celebrate the times he opens up. So don't just celebrate the trophies, celebrate the process, the effort, the work, the intentionality, the emotional maturity it takes. Like the times when he could blow up and lose is cool, but he's just super calm with the kids. Call it out. It doesn't have not in the moment, but like later, be like, hey, you know what? Earlier, the way you handled that situation, that was really impressive. I really I found that really impressive. That's what we want to do.

SPEAKER_01 27:31

Celebrate the failures, you know. That's how we and this is true on both sides, of course. It's just we happen to have a podcast where we have a 99% female women audience, and but this is so true in any relationship because we don't want your partner to feel like the only way they get validation is if they win. Because in many ways, where great connections are created are in failures, you know, that's where actually the bonding really happens in life. It's like I even say it here in love strategy, not to go on a side tangent, but it's like when we're all winning, that's fun. And we, you know, we we hang out together and we support, but honestly, where you see someone's true character is when things are getting tougher when you're going through the crap, you know, and everyone that's where heroism really exists is through the most challenging times and where there is failure everywhere, where there's mistakes being made. And that's that to me is where you really see what someone's made of.

SPEAKER_00 28:32

Yeah, and it's like one of those things to understand about guys is guys fear that they're only love for what they do and not for who they are. Yeah. And so, yes, he does, he's okay being acknowledged for what he does, right? So you can tell a guy, like, you know, you're so successful, I find that so impressive. He likes that. But you also need to back that up to make it clear that it's not just because he's successful that you love him. Like, I watch how much discipline it takes you to do what you do. I see how hard you work, I see the time you put in, I see everything that you're doing for our family, and I appreciate it. Oh, like you get that as a guy, like that is like feeling we talk all the time about feeling seen, heard, and understood. Guys want that too, and that's exactly how he wants it. I see what you do, I see what you do for us, I see how hard you work, the time you devote, how much it takes out of you at times. I see how much you care for all of us, and I appreciate. I just gave myself goosebumps, right? I appreciate it. Like it's a big deal for guys.

SPEAKER_01 29:47

And Gary, I appreciate you, buddy. You know, I gotta I gotta I gotta draft off these goosebumps, you know. I gotta get some of that. No, but it it really is true. I think men, especially nowadays, are not told that enough, and women aren't told that enough as well. But in particular, I think right now, in the current uh time we're in, I think it's just it really is a way of setting you apart in your relationship. And like I said, like we've been saying throughout this whole period, the more that you share how much he is needed and appreciated, he's very likely to reciprocate. It's a great step forward. And so for all of you going listening to this podcast, I think it's so important to just recognize we want to shift from this idea of like, how do I get a guy to open up? That question, although is somewhat useful, I think a better question is what conditions allow him to open up? Because that then will set the stage, it'll set the frame for him to really create that connection with you and you create that connection with him. And so, with all that said, one thing we we do here at Love Strategies, it's very different than any other dating coaching program out there, anything like that, is we not only coach on just dating, but we also focus on long-lasting commitment because you know, dating is just one part of the process, but building this deeper connection where you're both continuously opening up for not just the next 10 months, but the next 10, 20 years. That's very, very important. That's something we do around here. And so for those of you who are focused on building and creating that long-lasting relationship, what I'd recommend you do next is hop on a love strategy session with someone on our team. Um, you can apply for that love strategy session. It takes about three minutes, and we're gonna understand where you're currently struggling in your love life. Where do you want to go? And we'll help bridge that gap. And we want to walk with you every stage through your love journey from the heartbreak if you're going through that right now, from just being lost and not sure where to go, or finding that long-lasting relationship. We'll walk with you every single step of the way. So head on over to loveaply.com. You can kind of skip the line for those who've made it this far in the podcast, or click the link in the description below to schedule that complimentary love strategy session. Thank you so much, Gary. I really appreciate your time. And uh yeah, thank you all so much for listening.